We’ve done lots of recipes from the old cookbooks Jenn bought at an antique shop last year. Every one of them came out great, even with the substitutions and tweaks we made. Until this one.
Now some people might ask, “Why would you take the time to upload all this and write about it if it didn’t turn out right?” Good question. It’s because I really want to try again, but I have no idea what to change to fix it. I’m hoping someone out there will see a step and say, “Yup, that right there … that’s where you messed up.”
So if you’ve got a few minutes, and know your way around fruity desserts, I need your suggestions for what to do differently.
Ingredients
1 quart peaches (about 8-10)
3 tablespoons cornstarch
2 egg whites
½ cup cream, whipped
½ cup sugar
Directions
Like many of our “experimental” recipes, this one came from the Ohio State Grange Cookbook Eleventh Edition, 1949.
The recipe called for a can of peaches, but we used fresh peaches — which might be the whole problem — so Jenn mashed them up by hand, then with the potato masher.
Then mix the cornstarch with an equal amount of water.
The recipe called for using the syrup from the can. Again, we weren’t using a can. So we figured the syrup in a typical 1949 can of peaches was what is today called “light syrup”, which means simple syrup. So we used a half-cup of sugar and about a quarter-cup of water.
Whisk until the sugar is dissolved, then add the cornstarch mixture.
The directions said to stir “until clear” over the double boiler. We went for over an hour and it never got clear. Right then we suspected something wasn’t right.
But when you’re doing a new recipe, you never know until it’s done. So we went on with stirring in the peaches.
Then set it aside to cool.
In separate bowls whip the cream …
… and beat the egg whites until stiff.
Add the whipped cream and egg whites to the cooled peaches and fold them in.
Pour into a mold. We didn’t have any gelatin molds, so we went with this shortcake pan.
Which seemed like a great idea, until the peach filling came up almost to the edge. And we noticed the little hole for hanging the pan on a hook.
Luckily, we had mini-marshmallows on hand — for hot cocoa, of course — and stuffed one into the hole.
Put it in the fridge for several hours and …
… not firmed up at all. So we spooned it out and topped with the remaining whipped cream.
(By the way, the lighting in my in-laws’ kitchen is so different from mine that the colors were way off. Trust me, that’s the same stuff from the previous picture.)
So anyway, here’s the question: Why didn’t this gel up like it’s supposed to? Did we not use enough syrup? Were we wrong that it would be simple syrup, and this recipe needs corn syrup?
Okay, that’s several questions. Have you got an answer for any of them?
Want more like this? For more recipes like this, that you can hold right in your hands, and write on, take notes, tear pages out if you want (Gosh, you're tough on books, aren't you?) you might be interested in How To Cook Like Your Grandmother, 2nd edition, Illustrated. Or to learn your way around the kitchen, check out Starting From Scratch: The Owner's Manual for Your Kitchen.
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33 Comments
My first thought it that fresh peaches would be retaining more water than canned, so you may have needed a different ratio of cornstarch. Second, a “light” syrup in 1949 may have been heavier on sugar than a simple syrup today (again with the thickening help). Of course, neither of those reasons would explain why the mixture didn’t turn clear.
Sorry I couldn’t help more, and I may be totally wrong with my guesses.
I have found that when I am following the recipes from my old cookbooks that they turn out better when I follow them to the T. I would suggest trying it with canned peaches.
My best guess would be that an enzyme in the fresh peaches was not inactivated by the “canning/ cooking” process. This is the reason that fresh pineapple cannot be used in gelatin. The enzyme breaks down the gelatin bonds. I also agree that the syrup is a heavier ratio of sugar to water.
Funny thing is, I knew that about pineapple. Somehow it didn’t occur to me.
Sueann,
I think that you are correct. Perhaps if the peaches were blanched prior to use and maybe even peeled to come as close to the canned peaches as possible. Sugar was cheap in the 50s (educated guess, correct me if I’m wrong) and so I would guess that it would have been a heaver syrup or as one of the other comments put it that it needed more pectin to set. Could also be that you “cooked” the cornstarch too much. I did that once and totally wrecked a pie.
Drew: try making it as it is written, with the canned peaches and let us know how it turns out!
-Beth
That whole pineapple enzyme thing is so crazy. My mom once tried to do a recipe she had for cooked ham where you slice it and then put it in a casserole dish with canned pineapples, juice, and cherries to bake with fresh pineapple. It came out with a nasty film all over it because the enzyme digested the gelatin in the packaged ham.
I agree with Sueann… fresh and canned are just not interchangeable in a lot of recipes unless the recipe specifically says they are… especially peaches… their texture is totally different… Did you recipe say to mix the cornstarch with water?
Water is not in your ingredient list… Fresh peaches are loaded with water so I’d say not to add any water with cornstarch, nor would I make a syrup…
Just combine the cornstarch with the sugar and stir into the peaches and cook until it thickens. Set aside to cool. Then I’d combine the whipped cream and meringue before folding into the cooled peaches.
That seems like a LOT of cornstarch to me. Wonder if it was a typo?
I’ve learned from experience not to mess with the recipes as they are written until I’ve made them at least once. Then tweak if needed. Try the canned peaches. Maybe dial the cornstarch down a little too and see if it will boil clear.
Good luck!
Hello,
My best guess is that peaches were tinned with some apple juice. Peaches are very low in pectin which is needed to set well stuff, but apple juice (fresh) is quite high in pectin. I would suggest trying it using apple juice, lemon juice and sugar (at a guess 1 cup, 1tsp and 1/4 cup but I don’t honestly know) for the simple syrup.
Good Luck!
To answer a few questions in one place, yes, that was the amount of cornstarch listed. And the recipe did call for 3 tablespoons of water to combine with the cornstarch. I usually don’t list water with ingredients, because I just assume you have it handy.
I should probably have cooked the peaches after stirring in the syrup and cornstarch, since canned peaches would have been heat-processed during the canning.
Ohhh I’m so far behind on this blog and it’s the only blog I read! I’ve been an awful reader these last months between work, school, a hubby and my 3 darling children, so I’ve spent my morning catching up a little.
Culinary student here and just in the last year and a half or so, I learned about the beauty of the slurry. A slurry is equal amounts of cornstarch and very cold water that, when added to a boiling liquid, will thicken that liquid right up and there you have gravy without the added fat or flavor of roux. Once added to the boiling liquid, we were taught to boil for another minute or two to cook out any raw cornstarch flavor, then remove from the heat and let it stand a little and it’ll thicken up nicely.
My only suggestion for this really would be to follow the recipe exactly – I don’t really know how big of a difference home-canned or store-bought canned peaches would make – you can get them in light or heavy syrup, go for the heavy. And I agree with nicole just below here, I can’t see how you could add a slurry to anything and “stir until clear.” You can add it to boiling chicken stock and get gravy, which is certainly anything but clear, no matter how long you boil it.
I’ve missed you and your recipes, Drew – I think I can’t resist trying the potted chicken recipe I missed waaaay back in September
I’m thinking that the instruction “stir until clear” should’ve come after adding the sugar, but before the cornstarch. I don’t think cornstarch would ever turn clear, and takes less than a minute to gel. So an hour probably ruined it.
For what it’s worth, I have NEVER had one of these set-up pudding recipes come out right if it doesn’t contain actual gelatin — or added pectin. If your peaches were particularly ripe, they were virtually devoid of pectin. And fresh do contain lots more water than canned, yes — so the cornstarch may not have been up to gelling the ones you had. And Nicole’s right — cornstarch breaks down again after lengthy cooking, so it’s possible that it reached the point it was supposed to and then passed it by (but the other factors were also probably contributors.)
Ditto on the cornstarch – it totally breaks down with long cooking – but it also needs to come up to a boil to reach “set” point. 3 Tbs should have been more than enough to totally “set” the thing. By the way, I’ve used cornstarch to make gravies and stir fries and lemon sauces, etc. – it does go wonderfully clear, but only after you’ve brought it to a boiling point.
Some helpful info on using cornstarch from http://www.baking911.com/pantry/thickeners.htm
-Cornstarch loses potency when mixed with acids.
-Won’t gel or go clear if not brought to a boil
-Boil for one minute only or else it will breakdown and go thin again
-Do not vigorously stir or it will break down and thin out
Also, in the old recipe did “canned peaches” refer to in a can or “put up” canned peaches? A thought would be to check out an old recipe for canning peaches re: the syrup involved. My experience with old canning recipes (from Mennonite cookbooks) is that the syrup is much heavier.
There definitely a difference between canned/cooked peaches and fresh, in texture if nothing else! Maybe try poaching them in that “canning syrup” then using a food mill next time? Not sure if the enzymes in the fresh peaches would have broken the starch down – depends how acidic they were.
I think you may find the key was in the cornstarch.
I just looked at the recipe again and noted that it said “1 quart” for the peaches – that would be my clue they were talking about home canned peaches, since commercially canned fruits aren’t usually referred to in terms of “quarts”.
Cranky stuff, cornstarch.
Usually if it doesn’t clear, it didn’t make it to 95°C (about 203°F). This is why cornstarch is unpopular in the Lake Tahoe and Denver.
After it becomes clear, it quickly thickens, and further stirring will de-thicken it. The squirrelly starch molecules unscrew when heated where they get tangled up with each other, and form the “gel”. They then can hold hands and sing “we are the world”.
Sometimes it will de-thicken if there is a lot of sugar, the water leaks out of the gel.
I’ve alway used 1 tablespoon of cornstarch to 1 cup of liquid, perhaps not enough liquid? Try cooking 1 tablespoon of cornstarch with one cup water to see what happens. As Milton Berle used to say, “A little corn goes a long way”
I’ve made Isabella Beeton’s Apple Snow from “Book of Household Management” (1861) but it didn’t use cornstarch. I also cheated, I used prepared apple sauce. http://www.exclassics.com/beeton/beetpdf1.pdf
Ellen DeGeneres got involved in cornstarch, http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2008/ellen-degeneres-cornstarch-p1.php
P.S. I got some old recipes for peach catsup and cucumber catsup. I’ve not made the cucumber but the peach is terrific on pork-chops.
And the recipe for the peach catsup is … ?
Peach catsup
Sliced peaches or halves (cling or early) #2½ can
⋯#2½ can is 1 lb 13 oz or about 3½ cups, about 4½” high by 4” diameter
⋯If the peaches are in light syrup, add ¼ cup sugar for each cup of drained syrup.
⋯If the peaches are pie grade, add ⅔ cup of sugar for each cup of drained syrup.
Large Onion, chopped
½ cup vinegar, white or cider
½ teaspoon powdered cloves
½ teaspoon powdered cinnamon
¼ teaspoon powdered allspice
¼ teaspoon salt
Dash of Tabasco Sauce
Should make slightly less than 2 cups. I usually double the recipe.
Boil the syrup from the canned peaches until it’s reduced to about ½ cup.
Add everything else and cook covered at low boil for about an hour until onion and peaches are soft. The mixture should be thick.
Let it cool a little, run it through a sieve, and keep in a sterilized glass jar in the refrigerator.
About canned peaches :
Light syrup is about 20 degrees or 1 cup sugar to 3 cups water, heavy is about 40 degree syrup or 2 cups sugar to 3 cups of water.
Simple syrup (bartender’s stock) ranges from 50 to 65 degrees.
Degree syrup mean pounds of sugar in 100 pounds of syrup, i.e. 55 degree is 55# of sugar and 45# of water.
(no longer used) In the Fancy grade, perfect stock in the best state of ripeness is used and is handled with particular care. The fruit must be large enough to take not more than 12 pieces (halves) to fill a No. 2½ can; a 55-degree syrup is added. For Choice grade, the fruit must be nearly perfect, but need not be so large, the limit being 15 halves per can; a 40-degree syrup is used. The limit for Standard grade is 21 halves of good but less uniform fruit, and the strength of the syrup is 25 degrees. The “Sub-standard” grade calls for sound fruit of fairly uniform size and ripeness, without any definite size limit, packed in 10-degree syrup. The “Pie” grade simply requires sound, wholesome fruit packed in water in large cans, chiefly for making pies and other food products.
More about peaches: http://www.bowmanorchards.com/recipes/Peach-recipes.pdf
Here’s a thought…
Apples have pectin, and peaches don’t.
Maybe pectin could get you out of your jam?
Hi, my other thought would be, for the colour, to strain the peaches through a fine sieve to get rid of the bits. this would get rid of your blotchy look – hope this tidbit helps, and i am sure others have or will post the same.
Another question… just how “firm” was it supposed to be? Without gelatin, it won’t be set like a gelatin. So is it supposed to be a pudding consistency? In which case, why would it call for a “mold”? The ingredient list, to me, sounds more like it is supposed to set up like a firm pudding… in which case I still like my suggestion for mixing the sugar and cornstarch into cooked peaches. Cook for the minute (as pointed out by other contributors). Allow to cool and mix in the whipped cream and meringue. Put it in a nice bowl, chill and be happy!
I assumed it was supposed to set up because it called for a mold. And I assumed the cornstarch would be enough to do it.
When it comes to gravy, I knew that cornstarch has to come to a boil, which can’t happen in a double boiler. I figured some other mechanism must be at play to cause it to firm up.
Now I’m wondering if someone didn’t leave out some ingredients, or fudge the directions a little bit to make sure no one could reproduce their famous dish.
I do believe you’re on to something with this comment! It is not uncommon for home cooks to guard their recipes &/or secret ingredients. A misdirection or left out ingredient sounds about right!
You know what I’ve got to say about that, don’t you? (It’s in the column to the top-right.)
I’m thinking a heavier syrup and/or more cornstarch. I’d think that cooking down the peaches would allow them to release their own pectin to help it set.
Canned peaches have a high percentage of their water replaced by sugar. This is what preserves them, and changes the texture. Whether it’s heavy or light syrup really won’t matter much to the actual peach. Peaches DO have pectin, btw. But are a low pectin fruit, especially when compared to apple (which is what commercial pectin is derived from) or grape.
If using fresh peaches, I’d cut the water, use straight sugar, and perhaps add some gelatin to help it firm up. The cornstarch is a thickener, but so is the sugar. That’s a toss-up there. If using the gelatin, I think I’d skip the cornstarch.
Peach snow looks like a variant of the classic British apple snow (cook apples til soft, whip cream, beat eggs whites with sugar and fold them all together). If you want to try again using fresh peaches, try poaching them in a heavy syrup and pureeing them with a bit of the liquid, then whip the cream, make eggs& sugar merengue and fold all together. I think it should have the texture of a fruit fool and not set up like a mousse. Good luck – I hope you make it work.
The elusive pectin…
True, peaches and all plants contain pectin, it’s a constituent of the cell wall. Pectin also exists in multiple forms, for instance soluble and insoluble. Pectin content is also hard to measure, as the literature reveals. Pectin content and form can also change as a result of ripening and storage. Holloway et al (’83) list peaches with higher pectin content than apples (http://www.dietaryfiberfood.com/pectins.php) in their study of human digestion.
For pectin as a thickening agent for food containing sugar and acid, it’s the variety that you can find and that works which does the trick. In this sense, apples and citrus fruits excel—others are not so effective. This pectin allows jams, jellies and the like to thicken faster, requiring less cooking time and preserving more nutrients. Rah-rah & all that!
I apologize if I seem picky about pectin, we grandmotherly cooks need to stick together. Thick as thieves, so to speak.
Corn starch cannot be used with fresh fruit because of the acids. A substitute I’ve used before is a thickener called waxy maize, it works fine. When chilled with strawberries or kiwi fruit it sets up well, does not ‘break’, has no flavor and is clear like corn starch.
One more thought for similar issues, but probably not for this particular case: remember that measures such as cups and pints are not the same the world over. My English canning recipes don’t work at all if I don’t remember to convert the measurements to U.S.!
I can’t think of anything that hasn’t been said–but I bet it was yummy anyway. Peaches, eggs, sugar, cream…I know it didn’t do what it was supposed to, but how can you go too wrong with those?
Canned peaches are cooked and therefore contain pectin which is what firms up jam, so either use tinned or boil the mashed peaches. Also, I always use 1 part cornflour to 1/2 part water. Or alternatively once its in the pan, maybe you could bake it or but it in a bain-marie so the egg whites cook? Or maybe just whip the cream and egg until it’s much stiffer.
In 1949, any woman worthy of donning an apron and calling herself a cook would have canned those peaches herself and in all likelihood would have used heavy syrup for the canning. That was my grandmother’s recipe of choice and mine when I can peaches today. The more sugar in the syrup the thicker the end result. I’m guessing that “store bought” peaches would also have been in a heavy syrup too. Years and years ago I used to make Apple Snow, I don’t remember that it was supposed to “set” in the ‘fridge but I remember that it didn’t. . . we always spooned it out of the bowl, definitely on the soft side. Your dish with the whipped cream does look yummy! Thanks for sharing the visual with us.